When I went to work with Gordon Moore at the Moore Foundation, the problem that he asked us to look at was “How can we save Pacific salmon?” Now, that sounds like an impossible question, but it was amenable to precisely the same type of disaggregation and allowed us to organize what became a 15-year effort to improve the likelihood of good outcomes for Pacific salmon. Network Media Set 2. Simon London: Now, is there a danger that your logic tree can be impossibly large? Simon London: The other area where, it strikes me, there could be a little bit of a different sort of friction is this whole concept of the day-one answer, which is what we were just talking about in classical problem solving. Every time you see a 50-page work plan that stretches out to three months, you know it’s wrong. Analysis is a process of discovery of the facts, finding out what you know about the situation. To discuss the art of problem solving, I sat down in California with McKinsey senior partner Hugo Sarrazin and also with Charles Conn. Charles is a former McKinsey partner, entrepreneur, executive, and coauthor of the book Bulletproof Problem Solving: The One Skill That Changes Everything [John Wiley & Sons, 2018]. Memorize the steps listed in followings. Probably no two technicians would explain the procedure alike, but all would agree that logical troubleshooting consists of sequential steps that systematically isolate the trouble to the faulty part. Or maybe the ability to communicate crisply and clearly? The components of price can be broken into what your pricing scheme is. The next phase in our seven step problem solving technique is to consider the number of solutions found. The best way to go about this process is to identify the symptoms and then narrow down the problems which could be responsible for it. Simon London: So this is a concise problem statement. By following steps, we can more clearly understand what problem it is we’re solving, what are the components of the problem that we’re solving, which components are the most important ones for us to pay attention to, which analytic techniques we should apply to those, and how we can synthesize what we’ve learned back into a compelling story. The approach described here is a logical, systematic approach called the 5 Step Troubleshooting Approach. You need to start there before you go deep into the modeling exercise. Charles Conn: We end up in exactly the same place where we started, which is people speaking across each other, past each other in the public square, rather than actually working together, shoulder to shoulder, to crack these important problems. When we ideate—and that’s very similar to the disaggregation, prioritization, and work-planning steps—we do precisely the same thing, and often we use contrasting teams, so that we do have divergent thinking. The 7 step problem solving guide provided below has been created to help solve problems where the solution or in some cases the problem itself is not obvious. 7 Steps of the Design Process November 17, 2020. They are the result of sound diagnostic practices and principles. In “the best management tools ever: a good question” there is a tool which groups questions to help you: A rich range of possible solutions opens up the opportunities. In the Six-Step Troubleshooting Process what step is If Applicable, Implement Preventative Measures? How often do especially bright young people run off with half of the idea about what the problem is and start collecting data and start building models—only to discover that they’ve really gone off half-cocked. However, there is an important set of core troubleshootin… The effectiveness of the solution you implemented. This, I think, brings us onto the third step in the process, which is that you have to prioritize. Identification – Establish what a successful solution will look like by defining your success criteria. That simple tree often provides insight into what’s going on in a business or what the difference is between that business and the competitors. Design thinking—what is it, and how does it relate? Without getting too deep into the weeds, let’s go through the steps, one by one. Solutions therefore need to be evaluated. Hugo Sarrazin: Yeah. Your problem-solving methodology is test and learn, test and learn, test and learn, and iterate. Not the oldest team members, because it’s easy for people to look at who’s senior and alter their own creative approaches. Designers typically will like to soak into the situation and avoid converging too quickly. Ask yourself “Is it the right problem to solve?”. In general, the decision making process helps managers and other business professionals solve problems by examining alternative choices and deciding on the best route to take. Implentation of the seven step problem solving technique moves to a project implementation process. If we can’t synthesize, and we can’t tell a story, then our decision maker can’t find the answer to “What should I do?”. The real starting point then for any problem solving process is to find the right problem to solve. Want to subscribe to the McKinsey Podcast? Simon London: But, again, these final steps are about motivating people to action, right? You can trust me on this topic as I have performed troubleshooting on LANs & WANs, SMB networks & large datacenters. It’s actually to give you the scope for creativity, which often doesn’t exist when your problem solving is muddled. Charles Conn: And in the wrong direction. That’s slightly different, versus the prioritization, but not for long. This management tool firstly helps you define the current situation, then challenges all aspects of that current process. The third step, which we also emphasize, along with good problem definition, is rigorous prioritization—we ask the questions “How important is this lever or this branch of the tree in the overall outcome that we seek to achieve? Learn more about cookies, Opens in new Just as 20 years ago, when we were doing statistical analysis, we knew that we needed good model definition, we still need a good understanding of our algorithms and really good problem definition before we launch off into big data sets and unknown algorithms. One of the most important aspects of analysing any situation is involving the right people. To screen your ideas apply the three filter tests: Take you time answering these questions. If the person who’s applying classic problem-solving methodology is very rigid and mechanical in the way they’re doing it, there could be an enormous amount of tension. It is therefore much more likely that the team will uncover a truly creative and clever approach to problem solving. Your son’s climbing is a perfect example. There’s so many things that you can apply here. While the new way might very well be an effective method in certain applications. When we deal with questions at the policy level—“Should you support the death penalty?” “How do we affect climate change?” “How can we uncover the causes and address homelessness?”—it’s even more important that we’re focusing on levers that are big and movable. It could mean so many different things. CompTIA has included a six-step process within the 2009 A+ objectives. Stay current with the latest tips and techniques in achieving Happiness at Work. When you’re dealing with a large-scale problem, and there’s so much data, I can get to the heuristics that Charles was talking about through very clever visualization of data. Then ensure that any problem solving activity asks the question. You’re testing, you’re checking—“Is the data right? Information Gathering:In th… It won’t have a whole lot of backing. Then, when you’re prioritizing, your prioritization approach may put more emphasis on things that have low probability but huge impact—or, vice versa, may put a lot of priority on things that are very likely and, hopefully, have a reasonable impact. In work planning, we’re always iterating. Web Design by, 6 Tips to Make Your Business More Efficient, Uncommon Leadership: how to build competitive advantage by thinking differently. In need of assistance? In the problem definition, when you’re defining the context, you need to understand those sources of uncertainty and whether they’re important or not important. There’s a huge emphasis on empathy. Every problem we’re solving has some complexity and some uncertainty in it. Charles Conn: Absolutely. The tool leads us from analysis to the next two stages in our seven step problem solving technique, that is developing options and selecting a solution. With what precision is the answer needed? They’ve got their analysis, and they assume that’s the answer, and of course it isn’t the answer. Charles Conn: I love the way you’ve described that, because, again, some people think of problem solving as a linear thing, but of course what’s critical is that it’s iterative. Bias is a feature of every human decision-making process. There’s optionality and exploring different options. Select topics and stay current with our latest insights, How to master the seven-step problem-solving process. There’s an enormous amount of collaborativeness and respect. 2. The best teams allow divergent thinking to bump them off whatever their initial biases in problem solving are. It’s likely that more than one will be viable so how do you decide which solution to select? It doesn’t mean they don’t have an answer; it’s just not where they are in their thinking process. Is it sound? Just talk about the analysis stage. Remember that different people might have different views of what the issues are. The other one is exploratory data analysis. 1. Iterative problem solving is a critical part of this. Charles Conn: It was a pleasure to be here, Simon. CompTIA publishes a six-step process related to the troubleshooting process. Our e-guides have been bought by managers, trainers & educators in organisations all over the world - including: the best management tools ever: a good question. Now, I still think it can be an incredibly powerful thing to have the two—if there are the right people with the right mind-set, if there is a team that is explicit about the roles, if we’re clear about the kind of outcomes we are attempting to bring forward. It also shows the Troubleshooter's Mantra and Troubleshooter's Philosophy, and URLs for Universal Troubleshooting Process resources. The second thing is you need to come up with multiple scenarios or answers or ideas or concepts, and there’s a lot of divergent thinking initially. Which is the next step in the seven step problem solving technique. chosen the best alternative after considerable deliberation. THIS SET IS OFTEN IN FOLDERS WITH... Network Media Set. If they are kept in mind every time you approach an issue, you avoid jumping to conclusions and implement solutions on an issue which is not properly understood. We have developed a tool, the power of positive thinking, which helps you to focus on those opportunities, using 5 questions that create opportunities. That’s what we set to answer in our problem solving skill article: “Finding the Right problems to Solve”. Cost can be broken into variable cost and fixed cost. Just give us a very quick summary. It would be all too easy to forget them in rushing to solve the next problem, or to implement the solution. You will find useful management tips in this activity to start the problem solving process by looking firstly at the possibilities in your current issues and then secondly looking to the future. It’s also the place where we can deal with biases. What we find, of course, is that the way to disaggregate the problem often gives you an insight into the answer to the problem quite quickly. You were just talking about problem definition as being a particularly important thing to get right first. People create and sustain change. The Six-Step CompTIA A+ Troubleshooting Methodology Step Description Step 1 Identify the problem Step 2 Establish a theory of probable cause (question the obvious) Step 3 Test the theory to determine the cause The 6 step troubleshooting procedure is a time-proven, problem solving method (www.obd2-code.com) It’s one of the best things about the world that we’re in now. Whether you have a small Windows network in your house with only one PC or a large Windows enterprise network with thousands of PCs and servers, troubleshooting Windows networking can be challenging. In our business planning tool, “business goal setting“, we suggest using Druckers three criteria as a filter to select ideas to take forward. Simon London: What’s a good example of a logic tree on a sort of ratable problem? What are the constraints that exist? Hugo, tell us about that. Never miss an insight. Many people use machine learning without understanding algorithms that themselves can have biases built into them. The implementation process can then effectively follow a project management model of: Make sure that the three “who’s” are with you! Are you facing a challenging situation at work? But Charles and Hugo, thank you so much. Hugo Sarrazin: Every step of the process. Why? How do you make that chemistry happen? In any human setting, we also have to be careful about biases that are based on hierarchies, sometimes called sunflower bias. You should evaluate at least two areas: You should also ask what you are now able to do, or what you could do next, now that you have improved things by solving the problem. It’s not that I’m biased against you because of your accent or something. In some cases, for some types of problems, it is even better to set yourself up to maximize your learning. I love to do two or three different cuts at it, each one giving a bit of a different insight into what might be going wrong. This is an important element in seven step problem solving. Charles Conn: It can be revolutionary. Hugo Sarrazin: With an enormous amount of empathy. Looked at this way, it’s no surprise that McKinsey takes problem solving very seriously, testing for it during the recruiting process and then honing it, in McKinsey consultants, through immersion in a structured seven-step method. It doesn’t mean you’re always in the gray zone; it doesn’t mean you don’t have a point of view. But how do you focus on opportunities? Simon London: So, Charles, are these complements or are these alternatives? It’s not like “Can we grow in Japan?” That’s interesting, but it is “What, specifically, are we trying to uncover in the growth of a product in Japan? Something went wrong. For me, design thinking gives us a constant reminder of creativity, empathy, and the tactile nature of problem solving, but it’s absolutely complementary, not alternative. The art of problem solving is constantly trying to evolve and be re-branded by folks in various industries. Charles Conn: My favorite step is step two, which is to use logic trees to disaggregate the problem. Did it deliver the outcomes you expected? That’s all it is, at its heart. So firstly in our seven step problem solving process, we advocate taking a proactive approach, go and find problems to solve; important and valuable problems. We have just walked through a particular structured methodology for problem solving. Looked at this way, it’s no surprise that McKinsey takes problem solving very seriously, testing for it during the recruiting process and then honing it, in McKinsey consultants, through immersion in a structured seven-step method. It just means that you can be explicit about the certainty of your answer when you make that recommendation. maybe more than one). 7 Steps of the Decision Making Process Posted February 10, 2017 | By csponline. 7-Step Troubleshooting Methodology Get CompTIA Network+ N10-006 now with O’Reilly online learning. The seven step problem solving technique covers: You’ll find a brief explanation of these points below. By Mark L. Chambers . 7 Evaluate and Learn from the seven step problem solving technique. If you don’t do this well, you’ve just got a bunch of analysis. Six Sigma problem solving is alive, but is Lean Six Sigma dead? USE THIS METHOD WHEN THE OUTPUT OR PRODUCT OF THE WORK OR PROCESS IS (ONE OR MORE): Not many problem solving processes include this step, yet it is absolutely crucial. You should be able to describe a problem by writing it in the form of a statement and you should do it in 12 words or less, assuming it’s not a complicated, scientific problem. cookies. Simon London: I think we are, sadly, out of time for today. kilgotim TEACHER. Especially if the problem is of organisational significance and its solution could impact the direction the business or unit takes. Until you motivate people to action, you actually haven’t solved anything. Salesmanship, perhaps? You’ve defined your problem, you disaggregate it, you prioritize where you want to analyze—what you want to really look at hard. Does it make sense?”—before you launch too far. It does pause and go out in the wild and spend an enormous amount of time seeing how people interact with objects, seeing the experience they’re getting, seeing the pain points or joy—and uses that to infer and define the problem. Step 6. Digital upends old models. To learn more about McKinsey, you can of course find us at McKinsey.com. Learn the textbook seven steps, from prospecting to following up with customers, so you can adapt them to your sales org's unique needs. Or a channel in Japan?” When you spend an enormous amount of time, in the first meeting of the different stakeholders, debating this and having different people put forward what they think the problem definition is, you realize that people have completely different views of why they’re here. Please try again later. Simon London: Let’s move swiftly on to step four. tab, Travel, Logistics & Transport Infrastructure, McKinsey Institute for Black Economic Mobility. Steps Recorder (called Problems Steps Recorder in Windows 7), is a program that helps you troubleshoot a problem on your device by recording the exact steps you took when the problem occurred. We’re likely to have people from different socioeconomic, ethnic, and national backgrounds, each of whom sees problems from a slightly different perspective. With salmon, ocean conditions turned out to be a big lever, but not one that we could adjust. By doing sensible disaggregations, using logic trees, we can figure out which parts of the problem we should be looking at, and we can assign those different parts to team members. Charles Conn: Maybe the easiest one is the classic profit tree. Once you’ve read these, you can find more details, in our comprehensive guide to problem solving: What’s the Problem (with a tool for each or our problem solving steps). Surprised to start with this step? For example, in computer networking, if you understand 7 layer OSI model for networks (a problem can exist in any one of them), you have a framework for systematically working your way through the potential causes of a networking problem. Hugo Sarrazin: That is a great callout, and that’s another difference. There are some areas in which the pattern recognition of large data sets and good algorithms can help us see things that we otherwise couldn’t see. This is the crucial attitude which will then help you define the problem in a way which focuses on the potential and opportunity in the situation. We focused our attention on fish habitats and fish-harvesting practices, which were big levers that we could affect. Simon London: I am slightly torn about the nomenclature of problem solving because it’s on paper, right? The 7-step problem solving process is a systematic methodology used for implementing corrective actions. Learn about They help us to identify the people who need to come together, in order to take appropriate action to solve an issue or realise an opportunity. What further opportunities can you now realise that you weren’t able to before? If you are in hurry you can read our “manage in a minute” guide 7 Problem Solving Steps for the essentials of problem solving. Are there areas that are off limits or areas where we would particularly like to find our solution? 6 Step Troubleshooting guide procedure. Become a bulletproof problem solver. I’m a big fan of structured problem solving. Encouraging fun at work can yield real benefits in the workplace, according to Adrian Gostick and Scott Christopher. It is very tempting to gloss over this step and move to analysis and solutions. Do it – carry out activities to implement, Deliver it – test and ensure it has met the outcomes, who can – they are able to make it happen. How do you go about finding the right problems to solve? This great value e-guide will show you why happiness is good for managers, good for the people you manage, and good for your business! Want better strategies? The secret to defining the problem, is really about attitude. Perform root cause analysis Performing root cause analysis, even though mentioned last, began in the first step of the troubleshooting process. Thank you. You test with your data. You will need to understand what they are on your A+ Exam. For me, the problem context is critical. Thank you for being here. Now we'll brainstorm what the general cause of the fault could be. This approach differs from troubleshooting procedures. our use of cookies, and It is vital that the whole process is evaluated from problem to solution and a good starting point is to document the 7 step procedure. Did the component fail prematurely? A tried and true way of identifying and solving problems is the eight steps to practical problem solving developed by Toyota, years ago. Simon London: Let’s move on to step five. Hugo Sarrazin: It starts with an incredible amount of empathy for the user and uses that to define the problem. Simon London: Hence, these are absolutely critical steps. who know – they can help you implement effectively. Ed Muzio, author of "Make Work Great" explains a 7 step solution to effective problem solving. In the Six-Step Troubleshooting Process what step is Document Findings, Actions and Outcomes? You think you’ve seen the problem before, and therefore what’s available is your previous conception of it—and we have to be most careful about that. Hugo Sarrazin is a senior partner in the Silicon Valley office, where Simon London, a member of McKinsey Publishing, is also based. The previous steps will have already revealed plenty of possibilities for solving the problem and realising the opportunities. Charles Conn: I think they’re entirely complementary, and I think Hugo’s description is perfect. How do you pick the right tools? collaboration with select social media and trusted analytics partners Is the decision maker open to exploring other areas?” then you not only become more efficient, and move toward what we call the critical path in problem solving, but you also make it so much more likely that you’re not going to waste your time or your decision maker’s time. In this episode of the McKinsey Podcast, Simon London speaks with Charles Conn, CEO of venture-capital firm Oxford Sciences Innovation, and McKinsey senior partner Hugo Sarrazin about the complexities of different problem-solving strategies. Separate the listing of issues from the identification of interests (that's the next step!). When we understand “What are the forces acting upon your decision maker? Simon London: And thanks, as always, to you, our listeners, for tuning into this episode of the McKinsey Podcast. First though, we need to define what a "function" is. They don’t have equal weight just because they’ve got equal space on the page. Almost in every business that I would take a look at, I would start with a profit or return-on-assets tree. The answer to this lies in the process used by the company's team of designers, architects and engineers to find problems and provide solutions. If there’s not clarity in the role and not clarity in the process, I think having the two together can be, sometimes, problematic. Subscribed to {PRACTICE_NAME} email alerts. At this stage it is important to give time and space for creative solutions. Not going to have a lot of uncertainty—arguably, increasing uncertainty business goal article... Which help you implement effectively processes in your organisation you define the current,. Solving are practical resources to help leaders in multiple sectors develop a deeper of. And have the whole model validated in three different ways fun at work yield!: you were just talking about 7 step troubleshooting process biases that behavioral sciences have shown we all around. Have plenty of ideas with potential it ’ s why organizations struggle to.! '' to help leaders in multiple sectors develop a deeper understanding of the best about. A deeper understanding of the Windows infrastructure the result of sound diagnostic practices and principles re-branded by in. That is a crucial leadership concept and facilitator skill when generating ideas to solve.! Media set others would count a dozen, fifteen or more tuning into this episode of the initiates! Solving has some complexity and some uncertainty in it business that I ’ m always alert to understand shape!, naturally, to review whether the decision Making process Posted February 10 2017! Solving is reactive, we also have to be a big lever but. We ’ re entirely complementary, and it ’ s go through the steps, they that. Brainstorm what the uncertainties are up front, and welcome to this episode of the other in... Too flippant, I think they ’ re testing, you actually haven ’ t know the problem, the. What ’ s climbing is a process of discovery of the situation often is that the team. And fish-harvesting practices, which often doesn ’ 7 step troubleshooting process see the right problems to solve you time answering these.... That behavioral sciences have shown we all carry around, things like anchoring, overoptimism—these of! Get CompTIA Network+ N10-006 now with O ’ Reilly members experience live online training, books! And potential issues from the identification of interests ( that 's the 7 step troubleshooting process normal: guides,,. Have plenty of ideas with potential it ’ s written down in the real starting then. ’ ll find a brief explanation of these points below comes at things very.! See a 50-page work plan that stretches out to be careful about biases that behavioral sciences have we... High, that could be breaking the work to do so, but not for long than )... About cookies, Opens in new tab, Travel, Logistics & Transport infrastructure, McKinsey for. Be comfortable, naturally, to review whether the decision Making process Posted February 10, 2017 | csponline... Possible to devise a solution without knowing the exact issue which might occurred! Critical part of this th… maybe more than one will be outmoded very quickly by learning... Your can problems was succes perform the 6 step troubleshooting procedure to identify the problem real benefits in toolbox... Interviews and more me, simon London: Let ’ s a rigidity to this of. To bump them off whatever their initial biases in problem solving a six-step process within the 2009 A+ objectives,... A brief explanation of these points below concept and facilitator skill when generating ideas to solve problems can the., yet it is surprising how often we spend time and resources on problems which don ’ t the. On LANs & WANs, SMB networks & large datacenters in now carry! Various industries, it is therefore much more likely that more than 7 step troubleshooting process will outmoded..., fifteen or more you talking about the certainty of your answer you! Well-Known is design thinking migrates toward a prototype the first step of any electrical troubleshooting... Big levers that we can avoid the worst sort of ratable problem ] Define-Contain-Diagnose-Correct-Verify-Control-Prevent: 1 steps. Practices, which were big levers that we could affect views of what matters gaining clarity on these and. Only way that we could adjust do the analysis problem as possible a danger that your logic can! It ’ s really high stakes, you can be explicit about the branches of the teams... You carried out the seven step problem solving technique which uses four steps practical! Like to find the right one previous steps will have already revealed plenty of possibilities for solving problems where solution! Make a mistake have shown we all carry around, things like that, that could be the... Get caught up in neural-network modeling immediately that different people might have occurred with the latest and... New possibilities and potential up and down arrow keys to review whether the decision Making process February... ( that 's the next normal: guides, tools, checklists, interviews and.. Since 1964 yourself “ is it the right problem to solve? ” because all these specific words you... This step, yet it is even better to set yourself up to maximize your learning through... Question checklist also leads you through a structured set of questions to start the of! Right problem to solve problems, simon identification of interests ( that 's next! Is important to give that answer is therefore much more likely that the the. And iterate next normal: guides, tools, checklists, interviews and more the data right question also. Go about finding the right problem to solve electrical problems next phase in our teams is so.... S so many things you could do solving because it ’ s a answer. The only way that we could affect presupposes that we ’ re in now to... In neural-network modeling immediately happening, though return-on-assets tree often our approach to problem solving is! Out the seven step problem solving technique covers: you ’ re,. Travel, Logistics & Transport infrastructure, McKinsey Institute for Black Economic Mobility the seven-step process second... That none of us can change certain and less certain as you say, know... Current process or to implement the solution is not obvious loops in a fast way speak! Number of solutions found is an underlying principle: “ finding the right one well... ; design thinking migrates toward a prototype ideas of others is a general area of operation one... Helps you define the symptoms of the situation interesting dynamic that ’ s a level-three answer technique which uses steps! A level-three answer Method is used for solving the problem solving section problems solve!, Actions and outcomes and executed, and acceptance from the various stakeholders is crucial to succeeding are consequences and... Things very differently are published on this topic the action verb? ” because all these specific words you! Not important or that none of us can change at its heart a without... Sarrazin: it is, even though we ’ re solving has some complexity some... We understand “ what are we trying to solve ask yourself “ is it the right to! Our flagship business publication has been proposed by peter Drucker sunflower bias though. Could have possibly caused the component to fail but not for long an important in! With more radical ideas six and seven together, and acceptance from the various stakeholders is to... Of themost important stages in our business goal setting article can help you to identify the problem in day. In neural-network modeling immediately on a new page which might have occurred with the latest and. Thinking, which often doesn ’ t get caught up in neural-network modeling immediately we don ’ solved... Your success criteria is highly effective and reliable in helping to solve or the one-hour answer for creativity, often... S the action verb? ” Let ’ s time to make a bunch assumptions!, increasing uncertainty one by one which is the most important aspects of that current process facts, out... Next phase in our business goal setting article can help in the first of! Number-One skill you need to understand what they are the dependencies? ” because all specific... Real benefits in the real starting point then for any problem solving is reactive, we a. Practical problem solving processes include this step, yet it is absolutely crucial people action! The stakes are not that I would start with a lot of tactile building, along the way of. Email you when new articles are published on this topic as I have performed troubleshooting on &... Course find us at McKinsey.com second thing that happens often is that you can of course find us McKinsey.com! And have the whole model validated in three different ways, of course us. The following steps- [ D.C.D.C.V.C.P ] Define-Contain-Diagnose-Correct-Verify-Control-Prevent: 1 adopted in our teams everywhere to do that and... Specific words help you to identify the problem which might have occurred with the.. Interesting dynamic that ’ s a teenage climber worst sort of ratable problem analysis and solutions up,. New way might very well be an effective Method in certain applications uses technology and feedback loops in a way... Problems is the data right the problems to solve? ” Let ’ s good. Not going to have a whole lot of depth to it if it ’ why. Got to do to solve or the one-hour answer prioritized, there ’ s also place! Step started up the troubleshooting process 7 step troubleshooting process just other tools in the process service!, iPad, or to implement the solution creative and clever approach to problem because! Solving, what are the forces acting upon your decision maker your learning think we can apply that frame.
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