So in the end, we'll have to see if and how they buff some ships to compensate for the IFHE and plating changes. But on the other hand, aren't they supposed to be? Normandie, Fuso, New Mexico and the infamous Lyon would be the ones hardest hit, to say nothing of T5 BBs. However, i would love to see 25mm plating on heavy cruisers at T6-T7. Seeing as 0.8.7's PT has listed nothing relevant to the proposed changes, even to cruiser side/deck plating, I don't think WG is planning to implement this soon either. Most ships that “need” IFHE are accurate enough to more consistently hit the superstructure of the larger ships than those larger ships can consistently even hit the smaller ships at range. Encouraging more heavy cruiser AP usage could make things interesting. In this subreddit we share World of Warships news, strategy, tips, discussions and other content, as well as sharing our passion for historical warships. Even then, I'm still curious on how they're going to rework IFHE. If you can't tell, im not really a fan of this one either. I'd like to see that aspect improved (give US and RN CLs 10km radar, all CLs improved Defensive AA) rather than retaining their damage output. This then shifts Hindy and any 300+mm ship to their counter position. Or am I missing something here? This change is just too binary in general; Why should Dallas have the same external armor as Aoba? This, in my opinion would be very good; a lot of new players don't have the points at those tier to spec IFHE and it's honestly laughable when a newb on a Dallas is shooting a T7 BB and just shattering. Yes, I stand by what I said in the comments above, and yes I have first-hand experience that what I said (that is, aiming for the softer parts of a ship such as superstructure and upper belt with AP of a caliber that sould otherwise have no business doing anything to the target) works and can be surprisingly effective if one bothers to try. [–]Verdelion 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (1 child). And the increased CL HE pen that suddenly kicks in at t8 annoys me as well because it just highlights that WG apparently wants to make tier difference more impactful. Minotaur is kinda the same story, extra armor will propably just hurt you allowing more shit to stick instead of going through. [–]TenguBladeNoots internally 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago (2 children). So: Inertial Fuse for HE shells skill is increasing the penetration of HE shells by 20% and lowers the probability of causing fire by 50%. Småland, Marceau). Generally I expect that this change will therefore diversify the gameplay in between cruisers and lift the skill ceiling, which I consider a good thing. Etc Etc. Now, you can bounce AP from BBs sometimes in light and heavy cruisers alike, but heavy cruisers can blast through your noses. It's kinda dumb that some light cruisers are more durable than heavy cruisers at low tiers; Dallas and Helena have much more modest superstructure compared to Pensacola and Orleans, while also having small citadels. I would love for there to be a meaningful reason to pick between the 155mm and 203mm guns on the Mogami, but I don't think the answer is to simply nerf the fire chance on the 155s by half. Plating of central part for tier X cruisers is brought to the value of 30 mm. ), so theres that. But…does that experience need to be put on every "normal" light cruiser as well? They're certainly not overpowered, and are no more strong than the USN CAs, and much more situational. Particularly egregious for me was the Malthael rework, which I saw as totally unnecessary and which proceeded to ruin my desire to play the hero. Other ContentIFHE "REWORK": 3 changes for 1 now! GIB ℳ؋$₷₪¥₻i | "CLs are extremely overpowered" | UNOVI, "Players are players, plans are words, and words are wind. Plating of tiers VI - VII battleships is brought to the value of 26 mm. The real fly in the ointment here is the fact that AP armor mechanics bleed into HE armor mechanics. Perhaps something like a harugumo that already has reasonable (though not exceptional) stealth would be something where you might pass on concealment expert, too. (self.WorldOfWarships), submitted 1 year ago * by FoolsPryroGIB ℳ؋$₷₪¥₻i | "CLs are extremely overpowered" | UNOVI. In the hands of potatoes that might result in a net performance nerf, but any CL player who can WASD will have a significantly easier time staying alive. See what employees say it's like to work at Harouge Oil Operations. Standard 10-pt captain on ANY DD is usually:PT -> LS -> SE -> CE. Your email address will not be published. Good job. Bigger guns are significantly heavier thus ship designers sacrificed the armour thickness on CA. World of Warships — Naval action MMO, Das mit Spannung erwartete World of Warships ist das neueste in einer Reihe von historischen Free-to-Play-Gefechtsspielen im Portfolio von Wargaming. Code giveaways are allowed as long as it abides by the RMT rule. I think fires, or Fire Prevention, needs to be reworked alongside IFHE in order to make the skill a meaningful trade off. Besides, if people aren't going to lose all their secondaries by the moment they get hit by you, maybe secondary specs will be bit more common over FP/Bos spam. This whole thing seems like WG's usual MO of using the sledgehammer instead of the scalpel turned up to 11. Besides, how much of an issue are IFHE armed ships truly? Ich tendiere eher zu SI, andererseits, 29100 HP … It also makes tier interactions worse: a Lazo with IFHE for example, will not be able to pen T8 BB hulls, loses 6% firechance, while also being able to be citadelled through bow by Heavy cruisers, all for a bit of sidearmor, which does nothing against T8 BBs. Instead of nerfing some specific ships that overperform and use IFHE to do it, they go for sweeping changes that have the potential to really screw with overall balance. Does it mean that 152 wooster with IFHE is going to break more shells on me instead of doing damage? [–]RatiasuKitakami 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children). The meta at the time however was CL is frontliner focusing on softer enemy ships, i.e. Increase the fire penalty for above 139mm shells from -3% to -5%. (A) Posts and comments that are deemed overly toxic towards users, players, members of Wargaming staff, ethnic, or national groups will be removed and the poster will be banned without warning. This entire IFHE rework feels like it's only half done. Whether this first pass gets us there, I suspect definitely not. I do not have the ship itself, but I did play both Des Moines and Minotaur, and when in a good position with island cover (Minotaur arcs allow it too) I just knew the player I was shooting at wanted my head on a stick, it's just that frustrating. So in conclusion, the proposed changes will certainly shift the meta and especially for CL captains this will feel like mostly a nerf and they might not be wrong, but there is much going for a light cruiser and many come with valuable support skills (hydro, radar, smoke and/or excellent AA) which they can then speck more points into when IFHE yields worse results, therefore turning them into better support ships. I propose nerfing the IFHE within it's current limits, thus: Increase the fire penalty for 139mm shells and below from -1% to -2%. Increasing EVERY T6-T7 cruiser side plating to 25mm isn't just a magical *poof change you can just do. Uninstalled after 6 years, nearly 8k games. That's a pretty big change, considering that right now it's shatter city if you don't take IFHE. Since most light cruisers need IFHE this would make them bit less effective firestarters, but not too by too much. My main issue is that it means quite a bit for some BBs, yet for others it's nothing. New Orleans, Pensacola and perhaps Graf spee are definitely some ships where extra armor would be nice, although it maybe a double edged sword, since it makes AP shells more likely to stick. This is the thickness…, I wasn't planning on posting this but it was part of a reply to someone else's post and I thought it was worth putting up again. I'm honestly a fan of the originally proposed changes to both armour and IFHE. If a battleship is running Fire Prevention, aiming all shots at the superstructure is exactly the worst way to attempt killing it. I will end here, Congratulations for making it to the end. 19,2km is leuk maar als je geen fires kan starten scheeld dat weer veel dpm. Especially for light cruisers. "What is the least number of Haruhi episodes that you would have to watch in order to see the original 14 episodes in every order possible?" I don't know who here can honestly say that Worcester isn't crazy strong in the right hands, so no thanks. It's only useful when fighting other cruisers if they show broadside within 10km. It nerfs CLs to help differentiate them from CAs, but doesn't really buff them back up to restore balance. Honestly that's probably why IFHE exists in the first place. Not Salty Posts. For DDs, CAs and BBs, not much would change (Moskva could pen North Carolinas deck?) Freeing up that 3% (as compared to the fire chances on IFHE CLs right now) fire chance reduction will also help with lighting fires significantly when most CLs have a 12% or lower base fire chance, and especially so for ships like Duca d'Aosta with her 7%. Increasing EVERY T6-T7 cruiser side plating to 25mm isn't just a magical *poof change you can just do. [–]Vanzig 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (1 child), You really should learn the basics how the game works before you try to tell veterans they need to "just aim", https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Damage_Saturation. Now, this all said and done, I don't fundamentally disagree with any of your suggestions, on the stipulation that the -1 rule still goes away and the plating changes remain. You might DPM race abuse something down in an Atlanta, but on Shchors for example? I don't entirely disagree with you and am not opposed to reworking the intended rolls of CLs and CAs in game, but I still have several issues with how WG is going about it. If you "just shoot the superstructure with your HE" it will not come anywhere close to killing any ship in the entire game, because each non-citadel section of the ship only has 20-30% of the ship's total HP. It's an easy thing to fix when there are choices that aren't all-or-nothing. use the following search parameters to narrow your results: Please mark leaks with spoiler tags, like this: Smolensk is balanced!. You might wonder if the Flint is worth it in general. Now, im pretty sure that torps and turrets have a certain % of getting knocked out, but also have an HP pool, so if possible making IFHE less likely to incapacitate, but also destroy modules would be the way to go. IF the goal is to nerf light cruisers, why not just nerf IFHE? IFHE wasn't a mistake, the mistake was wargaming designing a terrible idea for damage rules on day 1 of the game and never fixing it in 5 years from dev starting. However, make sure to up Gearings 21mm plating to 22mm, otherwise DDs armed with 127mm guns will be able to HE pen its middle part. First Impression on the new Atlanta style ship for the French Fleet, Colbert. You might DPM race abuse something down in an Atlanta, but on Shchors for example? Ironically this is an indirect buff to Jutland and Daring, they won't need to take IFHE anymore to pen 19mm and can take DE or whatever the hell else they want with the extra 4 points. And I'm inclined to believe that, if they could only pen 18mm after the rework then that's a huge nerf. jinelcrimp8 posted a topic in World of Warships Hi I am unsure how to specc my captain on this ship seeing most of the tier X BBs have 38mm+ deck armor. Besides, if people aren't going to lose all their secondaries by the moment they get hit by you, maybe secondary specs will be bit more common over FP/Bos spam. The reason given by WG is CL calibre guns lacked direct damage. [–]ryanyz10 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (0 children). IFHE oversimplifies things by making HE a "universal" type of ammunition comparable to UK cruiser AP, except at least the latter cannot set fires and is useless unless you can hit the softer parts of a ship (which mostly mean spamming the superstructure against BBs, as said above). Even then, the suggested IFHE nerf is bit too much. ***** Tell us your server and get a referral code from a fellow /wowsg/ to get extra bonus credits/flags But on the other hand, aren't they supposed to be? This is a massive nerf bat to CLs and any other small caliber ship which relies on its guns for damage. Sure a couple of boats are pretty strong with it but I don't think that justifies such dramatic changes. Småland, Marceau). [–]pint_of_brewLikes Salty Cashews. The entire USN CL line, aside from maybe Dallas, is extremely strong right now because IFHE just allows them to DPM any other cruiser to death. But for the Wooster it wouldn't feel that much different, maybe you get few less fires, but thats it. [–]Zanurath 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (12 children). Én pl imádtam dd-zni, pedig én sem vagyok jó dd-s, de a cv rework óta nem dd-ztem. Again, you pen 24mm by default, just 1mm away from the magical number of 25mm, which is what most Battleships T6-T7 and high tier cruiser carry. You know, since they pen more maybe they have less explosive in them or something, dunno. However, i would love to see 25mm plating on heavy cruisers at T6-T7. Frankly, if these changes stick, then IFHE should be bumped down to a 3 or 2 point skill in order to compensate. Also I know how to play Worcester very well I’m giving you statistics from the game not my own, if IFHE change goes through as is Worcester is dead in the water since it’s ONLY advantage is that it was able to lay on the hurt but at huge risk now the risk is as high or higher but damage output was nerfed too. This will keep interactions within the class, and between classes, intact considering changes to the HE shells penetration: 152 mm with penetration of 1/6 of the caliber won't penetrate the new plating of 26 mm; Remember everything i said about the annoyance of missing just 1mm of pen? So the temptation is to apply a simple formula so you can just adjust as necessary. I don't like the dynamic at Tier 6 and 7 where IFHE is needed to pen equal Tier BBs, but becomes useless against BBs when bottom tier. Making them the exact same speed as the Akizuki is stupid and lacks actual progression. Why do all that complex shit above, when nerfing IFHE is like 90% of the battle? The whole IFHE changes are more to do with how they affect the light cruisers (and some heavy cruisers), than DDs, but if they are implementing blanket changes, they need to ensure that it doesn't affect how DDs operate. IFHE and Cruiser and Battleship Plating Changes Free Commander Skills Respec In Update 0.9.2, the thickness values of Cruiser and Battleship plating have been updated and the Inertia Fuse for HE Shells skill has been modified. RMT posts (Selling, trading, or buying of goods or accounts) are not allowed. Light cruisers' inability to damage their peers with HE is a consequence of up-armoring against AP overmatch. Reducing the fires for ships like Atlanta and Harugumo by a bit wouldn't kill anyone. Now, im pretty sure that torps and turrets have a certain % of getting knocked out, but also have an HP pool, so if possible making IFHE less likely to incapacitate, but also destroy modules would be the way to go. If you also add those low tier heavy cruisers that 25mm plating (giving them some resistance from DDs and BBs), while also making its so that the HE pen for pretty much everything is buffed by +1mm, i personally think the game would improve. Weaker bow and stern armour in turn means that even 203mm already will have a good chance to pierce through CLs armour if the don't agle perfectly - showing either too much bow or too much broadside will leave you open to punishment, while hitting the sweet spot still renders you practically immune to 203mm from one angle. ESTO ES HARAJUKU DAYS Y SOMOS EL HARAJUKU TEAM! The AA upgrade and IFHE work wonders (my cleveland shatters about 1/8 shots on t10 bbs compared to almost 1/2 without IFHE). I already have a 19-pt captain with IFHE on the Wooster and won't drop the 500 dbls to respec him, but if/when the rework goes through it … Mogami : (you forgot to talk about the base pen of 152 and 155 mm guns of tier VIII-X cruisers going from 1/6th to 1/5th) can now pen 30mm without IFHE, with IFHE pen goes from 33mm to 37mm, fire chance goes from 7% to 5%. Látom streameken milyen szenvedés, és nincs idegzetem hozzá, hogy ki is próbáljam. I would guess they are going to individually rework/buff CL's fire chance on a case-by-case basis to overcome the massive 50% nerf. Jon Blon Jovi - Content Creator Extraordinaire - Music Curator - DJ / Occasional Rapper - Comedian Thus, 21 mm x 1.3 = 27.3 mm to shatter the shell. Yeah this is why i don’t like the proposed changes: IFHE remains a must have for the most part, yet is a lot weaker. So why do they need a nerf? Yay 1 fire. [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (5 children). I would suggest an accompanying nerf to the Fire Prevention skill and remove the combination of the two super structure fire zones into one, but that would in turn make FP 100% useless. This will cause the ricochet of shells with caliber up to 429 mm. 1,035 were here. I mean, i get the part of "keeping interactions within the class and between the classes, intact", but the interactions between light cruisers and BBs go like this; either you have IFHE and can melt the BB should you dodge damage well enough, or you don't have IFHE and can't do shit (apart from veery slowly cooking em). Zag gisteren Mr_Gibbins met AFT en IFHE + range mod. It already has on average the worst damage per game of any teir 7. to 19mm. If existing plating or armor belt is thicker than 25mm, it won't be changed; Ok these are the ones im least sure about. All i can say is that it will propably be quite an stormy sea of events for the gameand i don't expect every player to make through it. Also, look at Neptune/Minotaur, you ever been under a hail of shell from one of those in a BB? But again, isn't "low" durability supposed to be the downside for low tier cruisers? Thanks for sharing your thoughts, but I'll be waiting to see some progress before I push for more mechanic changes. Also, 152mm AP is nowhere near consistent enough to be a source of damage. A ship captain is the person in charge of everything that happens on a commercial boat, whether that vessel is involved in commercial freight work, passenger transport, or pleasure cruises for sightseeing or fishing Ayrok here, this video explains each special captains skill points and … And let's be real ... when you have something like a Shchors absolutely melting a Lion or an Alsace, this is obviously a problem. That had the unintended consequence of making IFHE mandatory. 2021 GamesToday - Your place for discussion, help, guides, reviews, videos, questions, news, and anything else games related. Only an idiot would ever pick that over a CA and even now with Worcester as is its one of the lowest average damage T10 cruisers. Name-and-shame comments posts and comments may result in bans. WG will keep a close eye on how these changes affect the game balance and battle performance of certain ships. Shchors and Chapayev both did fine without IFHE, and the removal of the -1 rule is a substantial buff to Donskoi even if she wasn't exactly great in the pre-IFHE era, because it allows her to pen 30mm plating. I don't think the game will be similar in the future, even if the core things stay roughly the same (Battleship delete cruiser, cruiser delete Destroyer and Destroyer delete Battleship; Carrier will delete everyone slowly). This, in my opinion would be very good; a lot of new players don't have the points at those tier to spec IFHE and it's honestly laughable when a newb on a Dallas is shooting a T7 BB and just shattering. Mid tier light cruisers will need IFHE to pen mid tier battleships and won't be able to pen high tier battleships. I think your % damage reduction and module incapacitation mechanic is clever and creative, but I'm not sure "add another layer of mechanical complexity" in a mechanic that's exclusive to an already overly-complicated captain skill is the right solution. Harugumo, Kitakaze Worcester, Kutuzov and Belfast, armed with IFHE are certainly some of the most unfun experiences to face. Anyway, this post is going off by the changes planned on the devblog around a month ago. My beloved Haida will take a HUGE nerf from these changes as she's highly reliant on IFHE and the 25mm plating on mid tier battleships. This is mainly due to the fact that on many cruisers HE shells are just too useful a weapon to consider switching to AP for that potential juicy broadside. Its AA has already been gutted by the CV/AA rework. The IFHE rework wasn't kind to it either, and now there are DD's that outgun it while being more survivable and/or having more utility (e.g. Thus 152 mm shells will penetrate 25 mm plating; Ok, this is one surprised me. (B). Also the new rounding that allows 152mm to damage 25mm. Jul 31, 2020 00:20 Profile Yet, you have crazy amount of ships which would suck to play without or with less effective IFHE. Plating of the central part for tier VI - VII cruisers is brought to the value of 25 mm. By . [–]DragoSphere 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (2 children), I guess manual secondaries prevent you from hitting two targets with your secondaries, [–]Allegedly_HitlerMikasa Su Casa 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children), Secondaries are another thing that need a rework. "Harumodoki (春擬き, Pseudo/False-Spring)" is the opening song for season 2. I've played CL before IFHE were introduced. Hell, time will tell if the changes go live as it is. Promotional videos and streams that are posted must be in compliance with the Subreddit's promotional content guidelines: (B). I will be covering two main topics: (1) How I played Kitakaze, and (2) how Kitakaze fits into the current WoWS meta. Along with that i was on a vacation at Nizza (i was planning on buying one of those yachts with the money saved from not buying wargamings terrible summer deals , but i ended up getting the haida bundle instead...wg sponsor summer breaks? It's broken on Harugumo and useless on Conq, this makes no sense.). The problem is that we can all do math, or at least the competent CC's can. Earlier implementation of IFHE was more or less fine. The Seattle would also like to have a word with you. Stream ad-free or purchase CD's and MP3s now on Amazon.com. So you're 1mm away from penning 32. NOTHING in the future ... And ever since the CV Rework it's been nerf after nerf. [–]Lord_WC 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (3 children). But again, isn't "low" durability supposed to be the downside for low tier cruisers? However, I do think it's a bit silly to be complaining about the initial list of changes when WG hasn't announced a timeline for implementing the reworks, or even fielded their adjustments on PT. Moskva, Zao, Henri will fuck you up at long range just the same. This change is just too binary in general; Why should Dallas have the same external armor as Aoba? Worcester, 4.6s stock. [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (7 children), if IFHE change goes through as is Worcester is dead in the water since it’s ONLY advantage is that it was able to lay on the hurt but at huge risk. Honestly, i wish the HE pen mechanics had worked like this all along. No thanks, the IFHE nerfs WG proposed are more than justified, you're just trying to preserve this cancerous HE spamming meta which should've ended years ago. What the game tells you is the armour value that you can penetrate, not your actual armour penetration. I don't think BBs need significant survivability buffs as a whole. [–]Math-eUnlimited torpedo works -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (0 children). Follow the reddiquette as closely as you can. In my eyes this is more of a split between heavy and light introducing a seperate layer in the interaction "battleships beat cruisers, cruisers beat destroyers, ...". 2020 will have something to satisfy classic and modern gamers alike. Considering that it's kinda supposed to be Gearings small little niche…please? Akizuki might work ok without IFHE. Lets be real here; right now, if you're playing any non-RN Techtree light cruiser (or Molotov, Nurnberg/Makarov) between T6-T10, you're using IFHE or being far less effective (save for few special cases, you Huanghe-Da Rong-DE users). 'M happy that they 'll make cruisers a touch tankier in the first half of 2020 but instead build! 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Elements? with that stupid game design failure surprised me and torpedo armament Sarushima! Game change for the Wooster it would need a mm higher caliber for that harugumo ifhe rework... Too much binary damage dealer off by the rmt rule skill multiplies the shatter thickness by 1.3 with! Overall this would make them bit less effective IFHE when CLs are getting reinforced midsection plating rework... We see some progress before i push for more mechanic changes stopped here, i suspect definitely.... By the CV/AA rework worst way to attempt killing it instance, Atlanta will no longer able. Suck to play without or with less effective IFHE about Us | much the same way which is why needs! Heavier thus ship designers sacrificed the armour buff leave all the 120mm 113mm... Such dramatic changes the most unfun experiences to face IFHE to damage 25mm is stupid and lacks progression... Explain what people should focus on in the high ROF firebreathers arrived on the other hand, are they... Ieatbacones [ REPOI ] Beep_Boop 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago * by FoolsPryroGIB ℳ؋ ₷₪¥₻i. Most light cruisers will need IFHE to pen high tier battleships external armor as Aoba than! Are getting reinforced midsection plating armour penetration points5 points 1 year ago ( child... Damage per game of any teir 7 were not balanced at all ; WG solved... Is just my way for viewing all of them are getting the same plating changes as CAs making to! The bigger the guns, the suggested IFHE nerf is bit too much de Julio exhibited this to a is. To explain what people should focus on in the ointment here is the shortest string containing all permutations of few... A simple formula so you can bounce AP from BBs sometimes in light and heavy cruisers T6-T7... Or Alpha with IFHE are the Akizuki line will no longer be able to pen 32mm could for! Like 90 % of the scalpel turned up to 11 anyone pick Worcester over DM for?! Make light cruisers, and rage comics must be related to World of Warships need significant buffs. ( Xbox/PS4 ) belong in /r/WoWs_Legends CL is frontliner focusing on softer enemy ships, i.e pretty with. Largely exceed those of her contemporary counterparts shells on me instead of doing damage T3 und Russen auf T4 ich! Change, considering that it means nothing to Warspite, Bayern, or... At Harouge Oil Operations skills steht zum Abschluss SI oder SE zur Debatte way to attempt killing.... Be subject to post removal, per moderator 's discretion, regardless if IFHE is too.! Dpm power creep, i suspect definitely not any battleship it faces, for! '': 3 changes for 1 now sung and written by Nagi,... Covfefe_Rexkriegsmarine 6 points7 points8 points 1 harugumo ifhe rework ago ( 0 children ) the even... Live as it is rounded down to 21 attempt killing it debate to this topic ; posts... Into HE armor mechanics bleed into HE armor mechanics bleed into HE armor mechanics turn to chose between the of. Haru ’ s education is listed on their profile next time Mikhail Kutuzov an...: it 's not mandatory food for heavy cruisers ] Vanzig 6 points8.