The fact that the Soviets didn’t resort to force is surprising. Go. Or at the least, could the Soviet Union have survived until today, and remained a viable competitor to the United States while celebrating the 100th … The New York Times' Daily podcast just did a two-parter about China's successful experiment doing just that. Tsochar said: You're right. The Soviet Union has pretty much already done that. Market driven economic reform in the 1970s. I realized in the middle of dinner that I was using the wrong term and came to correct myself. It is why I said that with time the situation would change as Soviet system would establish itself. Thread starter Mackereldude; Start date Jun 10, 2012; Prev. I think the mid-1980s were too late for Gorbachev's reforms. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Yes and no. Jun 10, 2012 #21 Killer300. You know, I wasn’t gonna say anything. What significant change could the leaders of the union have made from 1947-1990 that would make it win the cold war or make it survive to this day? Could the Soviet Union have won the Cold War? Virus-depleted Broncos have historically bad day. The USSR could have survived very easily; 1988-92 wasn’t the first time the legitimacy of the Soviet government was challenged by aggrieved parties with legitimate complaints. save. I know that the Central Asian republics were initially against independence, because they perceived the need to retain access to the rest of the Soviet market for their raw material exports. Key to the survival of any dictatorship is strict control of the media, which shapes public opinion and promotes tacit acceptance of a regime. But Gorbachev’s gambit on reforms could have worked -- … share. Are there any realistic scenarios where the Soviet Union might have survived until the present day? Military strength (Armament & personnel) 2. I do not think that it is possible in the way that you are thinking, if what you mean is a return of the old, communist tyranny (in the view of the West) of the U.S.S.R. That is precisely why they invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968, even though it was late in the year and they needed to deploy the army to help collect the harvest (thus risked famine) - the free press is more dangerous to the USSR than famine. First Prev 2 of 4 Go to page. They are not going to agree quic… We will never know what would have happened had the Soviet Union taken a different road. I see the economics in a lot of these comments but also would have to be more alert amd suppresive to the internet and anything that couod be subversize. Many people call the fall of the Soviet Union the End of the Twentieth century; a lot of things changed with the Soviet collapse. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the HistoryWhatIf community. We're here to explore alternate history scenarios in interesting ways. People still argue about the fall of the Roman Empire. Putin’s politic proves that the old USSR was salvageable. Could the Soviet Union Have Survived? The "Marshall Winter" is one of them. Could the Soviet Union have survived? Could the Soviet Union Have Survived into the 21st Century? The Soviet Union could not have survived, because by 1991 the Communist Party had lost control of the media and thus the public sphere. It probably would have meant the end of the Cold War, but the individual Soviet citizen would probably be better off today than his real-world counterpart that went through 25 years of chaos and is still facing the same basic human rights issues. Reading the reports, people were amazed and stunned about the living conditions in those types of societies and wondered how people survived. Putin has been recreating a sort of a Soviet-Union-with-shopping-malls-instead-of-Communism for some time now, and had a lot of success with it. What if the Soviet Union had taken a similar path to that of the People’s Republic of China? No one could imagine Poland joining the EU- or NATO. Tsochar said: You're right. 1. USSR as a Communist project Here, the answer is “yes”. 11 comments. What if the Soviet Union had taken a similar path to that of the People’s Republic of China? People still argue about the fall of the Roman Empire. Soviets liked the idea of ONE ENORMOUS THING rather than many little things. Worth a listen for anyone interested. Go to page. Posted by u/[deleted] 8 months ago. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The Soviet Union could not have survived, because by 1991 the Communist Party had lost control of the media and thus the public sphere. We will never know what would have happened had the Soviet Union taken a different road. No, the Soviet Union could not have won WWII without Western help Jun 07, 2019 by Sean CW Korsgaard in History. chinese economical ideas, or just rebranding into something that works. save hide report. I guess I was thrown off by all the USSR's five-year plans. One of the things I don't see people talk about is that leaders Stalin picked were still in power in the 80s. In retrospect, Soviet defeat seems overdetermined. Close. The Soviet Union, officially the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), was a federal socialist state in Northern Eurasia that existed from 1922 to 1991. Nikita Khrushchev: "I would like to express my candid opinion about Stalin’s views on whether the Red Army and the Soviet Union could have coped with Nazi Germany and survived the war without aid from the United States and Britain. We will never know what would have happened had the Soviet Union taken a different road. Key point: Moscow could have played its … Mosaics five storeys high, electric power stations, ghost towns - it seems the world has forgotten about these places that have survived from the Soviet era. The real effect of glasnost was the undeniable knowledge that the average westerner was living a lot better than most people in the Soviet bloc. How the 2020 pandemic has permanently changed retail. Email. Or at the least, could the Soviet Union have survived until today, and remained a viable competitor to the United States while celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Russian Revolution in 2017, or the centennial of the founding of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in 2022? China did it around 1980 and it has borne fruit. Jun 10, 2012 #21 Killer300. What did the Soviets do incorrectly, but the Chinese do correctly? How the Soviet Union Could Have Beat America in the Cold War (Or At Least Survived) Thankfully it never happened. Rodric Braithwaite, British Ambassador to the Soviet Union (1988-91) and author of Armageddon and Paranoia: the Nuclear Confrontation (Profile, 2017). Only a foolish and short-sighted west could have rescued the Soviet Union. The governance issues could have been handled with brute force. World War III: How the Swedish Air Force Would Have Survived a Soviet Attack. Go. They abandoned Stalinism in the 50s for a less murderous set of domestic policies, but failed to deliver anything but tepid mediocrity and surveillance/occupation at home or in their unwilling satellites. Could the Soviet Union have won World War 2 without American and British help? Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Not a reformer, but just someone who stays the course? The Soviet Union can't have free exchange of ideas and survive. ‘No one has suggested a convincing alternative scenario’ Rodric Braithwaite, British Ambassador to the Soviet Union (1988-91) and author of Armageddon and Paranoia: the Nuclear Confrontation (Profile, 2017). This thread is archived. Key to the survival of any dictatorship is strict control of the media, which shapes public opinion and promotes tacit acceptance of a regime. Could the USSR have survived if the Sino Soviet split didn't occur? The Soviet Union can't have free exchange of ideas and survive. The Swedish Air Force designed the Flygbassystem 90 to be unbeatable. 100% Upvoted . The Soviet Union could not have survived, because by 1991 the Communist Party had lost control of the media and thus the public sphere. by Caleb Larson. by Tom Nichols. You had people who were firm on the old stuff that even with the gradual loosening of policies...things basically stayed the same. I do not think that it is possible in the way that you are thinking, if what you mean is a return of the old, communist tyranny (in the view of the West) of the U.S.S.R. Nikita Khrushchev: "I would like to express my candid opinion about Stalin’s views on whether the Red Army and the Soviet Union could have coped with Nazi Germany and survived the war without aid from the United States and Britain. I know that the Soviet Union basically fought and defeated the Germans mostly on their own, but when I've mentioned this to other people they say that the Soviet Union could not have done it without economic aid and materials from the US and UK. Luckily, we didn't have that kind of leadership at the time. Could the Soviet Union have won the Cold War? Are there any realistic scenarios where the Soviet Union might have survived until the present day? Sort by . Just keep in mind that USSR was not only fighting Nazi Germany during WW2, but rather the whole Axis (expect Japan and its puppets) and Finland. Knock that out and the USSR survives as people didn't want it actually gone in the votes done at the time, just reforms. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Probably the biggest single event near the end that caused the dissolution when things were tumbling down was the coup in 91. What did the Soviets do incorrectly, but the Chinese do correctly? How could the soviet union have survived? Key to the survival of any dictatorship is strict control of the media, which shapes public opinion and promotes tacit acceptance of a regime. While not divided into ethnic SSRs like the Soviet Union, China has separatist movements in Tibet and Xinjiang at least as dedicated as those that existed in the USSR in the 1980's. What if instead of Gorbachev it is someone else who takes control in the 80's? Or at the least, could the Soviet Union have survived until today, and remained a viable competitor to the United States while celebrating the 100th … Not sure how long it would have prolonged its dissolution but staying out of Afghanistan would have at least delayed the collapse. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the HistoryWhatIf community. Welcome to HistoryWhatIf! An important factor in that was that China started out by allowing state owned enterprises to compete and allowing lower levels of government to start new lines of business before slowly transitioning to something approximately capitalist with private ownership of the means of production. The Soviets violently suppressed the exact same kind of uprisings in Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968, wherein protests with Moscow’s bullshit led to nationalist and anti-Soviet sentiments. You're going to have to pick one. First, I would like to tell about some remarks Stalin made and repeated several times when we were “discussing freely” among ourselves. There is no existing law system that could prevent anything from happening in the 20s Soviet Russia/Union. What significant change could the leaders of the union have made from 1947-1990 that would make it win the cold war or make it survive to this day? best. While not divided into ethnic SSRs like the Soviet Union, China has separatist movements in Tibet and Xinjiang at least as dedicated as those that existed in the USSR in the 1980's. The USSR didn’t. by … In an alternate universe where there was no Sino Soviet split, and the two countries maintained a shared sphere of influence, could the Cold war have continued through the 90s or even to today? 3; 4; Next. These issues could have been handled effectively by Soviet leaders with minimal effort. This thread is archived. I guess I was thrown off by all the USSR's five-year plans. The issues facing the Soviet Union boiled down to people being sick of Moscow’s bullshit: inefficient governance and economic stagnation catalyzed nationalist and anti-Communist feelings. Go. So the only way to no allow your political opponents to change the system is to not allow them to participate. Go to page. Long story short, the Soviet Union could have survived by spending their money smarter and acting like the stone-cold killers that got them to that point in the first place. Could the Soviet Union Have Survived into the 21st Century? What did the Soviets do incorrectly, but the Chinese do correctly? The Soviet leader is remembered as the man who killed a superpower. People still argue about the fall of the Roman Empire. They are not going to agree quickly on why the Soviet Union collapsed when it did. Nominally a union of multiple national Soviet republics, it was a one-party state (until 1990) governed by the Communist Party, with Moscow as its capital in its largest republic, the Russian SFSR. First Prev 2 of 4 Go to page. In which way could a core Soviet Union, perhaps as a lose federation between several former Soviet Republics, have survived? 3; 4; Next. That changing would be like admitting capitalists are better than them. Could the USSR survive at all? 7. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. They are not going to agree quickly on why the Soviet Union collapsed when it did. Could the Soviet Union have survived? If the Soviets went computerized, it would be in the form of a single, massive, centrally-controlled mega-mainframe. Press J to jump to the feed. Key to the survival of any dictatorship is strict control of the media, which shapes public opinion and promotes tacit acceptance of a regime. That was a major drain on resources at what turned out to be an in-opportune time for the Soviet economy. What if the Soviet Union had taken a similar path to that of the People’s Republic of China? So in the Soviet Net, each comrade would be given one and exactly one account for life, and it would give access to each and every message board and game and service, because there'd be only one. Key to the survival of any dictatorship is strict control of the media, which shapes public opinion and promotes tacit acceptance of a regime. Discussion. ‘No one has suggested a convincing alternative scenario’ Rodric Braithwaite, British Ambassador to the Soviet Union (1988-91) and author of Armageddon and Paranoia: the Nuclear Confrontation (Profile, 2017). They are by no means a free country today, but nearly 40 years of economic growth is unquestionably why they’re as important as they now are. I realized in the middle of dinner that I was using the wrong term and came to correct myself. The Swedish Air Force designed the Flygbassystem 90 to be unbeatable. The USSR let go of their pride too late in adapting capitalist style reforms to save the economy like China did. By then, the Soviet Union was so sclerotic that any attempt to reform it could only hasten its demise. World War III: How the Swedish Air Force Would Have Survived a Soviet Attack. share. I know that the Central Asian republics were initially against independence, because they perceived the need to retain access to the rest of the Soviet market for their raw material exports. But for more than seventy years the Soviet people have survived— and in many cases prospered— by trading on the wisdom summed up in my friend's aphorism. Reddit. You're going to have to pick one. Could the Soviet Union have survived? Create their own version of the great fire wall of china, a digital iron curtain. Could the Soviet Union Have Survived into the 21st Century? Welcome to HistoryWhatIf! For them there was the extra motivation to not change. Liberal economic reforms, with no liberal political reforms. The Soviet Union could not have survived, because by 1991 the Communist Party had lost control of the media and thus the public sphere. No, the Soviet Union could not have won WWII without Western help Jun 07, 2019 by Sean CW Korsgaard in History. Could the Soviet Union have survived? Go. Key point: Moscow could have played its … The Soviet Union could not have survived, because by 1991 the Communist Party had lost control of the media and thus the public sphere. (historytoday.com) 2 points | by prostoalex 1 hour ago 0 comments The Soviet Union could not have survived, because by 1991 the Communist Party had lost control of the media and thus the public sphere. With the Soviet Union remaining neutral (and continuing to ship resources to Germany under the Nazi–Soviet Pact,) Germany would have been … What if the Soviet Union had taken a similar path to that of the People’s Republic of China? The economic issues in the Soviet system could have been easily addressed by ceasing military spending in favor of domestic spending on infrastructure and feel-good welfare propaganda bullshit. Key to the survival of any dictatorship is strict control of the media, which shapes public opinion and promotes tacit acceptance of a regime. We will never know what would have happened had the Soviet Union taken a different road. Thread starter Mackereldude; Start date Jun 10, 2012; Prev. Rodric Braithwaite, British Ambassador to the Soviet Union (1988-91) and author of Armageddon and Paranoia: the Nuclear Confrontation (Profile, 2017). I’ll explain. Over the decades, there were continuous reports of what it was like to live in the Soviet Union and other restrictive societies. report. The Gulf War would have a completely different context, if Saddam even dared to think of invading Kuwait at all (Saddam was one of those "balance the superpower" leaders). First, I would like to tell about some remarks Stalin made and repeated several times when we were “discussing freely” among ourselves. Virus-depleted Broncos have historically bad day. The problem of the Soviet Union was not arms race, and not, by the way, lowering of oil prices in the 80’s. Could Mikhail Gorbachev Have Saved the Soviet Union? The USSR could have survived very easily; 1988-92 wasn’t the first time the legitimacy of the Soviet government was challenged by aggrieved parties with legitimate complaints. This means that any economic issues facing the state could have been corrected by throwing their money anywhere besides a massive pit labeled GUNS. In which way could a core Soviet Union, perhaps as a lose federation between several former Soviet Republics, have survived? So, you are saying that we'd need a Point of Departure sometime after Stalin (or before Stalin for that matter) to have the USSR become, instead of what it was - a copy of the Tsarist centrally-controlled, top-down dictatorship but with different names and different people in control - instead into a state with personal freedom, plenty of opportunity, and a respect for the rule of law? The Soviet leader is remembered as the man who killed a superpower. By the time Gorbachev took office in 1985, the system was irreparable, and his efforts to reform into a stable and sustainable system were too late. by Tom Nichols. Could the Soviet Union have survived? In which way could a core Soviet Union, perhaps as a lose federation between several former Soviet Republics, have survived? Could Mikhail Gorbachev Have Saved the Soviet Union? Luckily, we didn't have that kind of leadership at the time. You know, I wasn’t gonna say anything. How the 2020 pandemic has permanently changed retail. Next Last. Could the Soviet Union have survived? share. 1; 2. People still argue about the fall of the Roman Empire. How the Soviet Union Could Have Beat America in the Cold War (Or At Least Survived) Thankfully it never happened. Next Last. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The “what if” discussions about the end of the Soviet Union are still reverberating across Russia. I would like to explain in detail the factors so that you can decide for yourself. The result of the war can be determined by many factors. 81% Upvoted. Or at the least, could the Soviet Union have survived until today, and remained a viable competitor to the United States while celebrating the 100th … The Sino Soviet split did n't have that kind of leadership by u/ [ ]! 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